‘Investigate the Investigators’

Jim Jordan is the United States Representative for Ohio’s 4^th congressional district. Rep. Jordan is a member of the House Committee on the Judiciary and the Committee on Oversight and Government.

FRANK GAFFNEY:

Welcome to Secure Freedom Radio, this is Frank Gaffney, your host and guide for what I think of as an intelligence briefing on the war for the free world. A man who has demonstrated for years now in the United States Congress an extraordinary degree, not only of intelligence, but leadership, courage, and conviction. Particularly, as an outspoken and influential conservative is our first guest. He is Congressman Jim Jordon, he represents with great distinction the people of Ohio’s 4th Congressional District. He serves on the House Judiciary Committee and also on the Oversight and Government Reform Committee, which he chairs, among other things, its subcommittee on healthcare.  First of all, let me just say how delighted I am to have him with us; the founder of the House Freedom Caucus, its first chairman. A great American, so congressman welcome, it’s good to have you.

REP. JIM JORDAN:

It’s good to be with you today Frank. Thanks for all the good work that you do.

FRANK GAFFNEY:

Thank you. Let me talk to you about one of the projects you have been leading on with two of your colleagues, the current chairman of the Freedom Caucus: Congressman Mark Meadows of North Carolina and Jody Hice of Georgia. And that is this question of the investigations that have been mounted of Donald Trump, some of his lieutenants, and his campaign, now the transition and administration. You have called for investigating the investigators, talk a little about why that is needed sir.

REP. JIM JORDAN:

Since Comey testified under oath just a few weeks ago that he misled the American people; he did it at the direction of the attorney general; he did it willfully and intentionally.  Think about it, you had the attorney general of the United States tell the FBI Director, go tell the American people something that is not accurate. When she told him call the Clinton investigation a manner, not an investigation. That should not happen in this great country, but it did.  James Comey knew it was wrong, and yet he did it anyway, and then this year he misleads the American people when he furthers the perception that President Trump is under investigation. When in fact he wasn’t, and had been told three times by the FBI Director himself that he wasn’t under investigation.  Yet we have to have a special counsel to investigate President Trump when everyone knows that according to testimony that he didn’t obstruct justice, there was no collusion, and yet he gets a special counsel to look into this Russia situation, look into the President, and James Comey is allowed to mislead the American people twice.

FRANK GAFFNEY:

Yeah, and the other piece of that, which you’ve warned about of course, was fact that he also caught to leaking the information designed to create a special counsel. Who, low and behold, turns out to be one of his best buddies—Bob Mueller. Which gives rise to another question sir, in your efforts to hold these guys accountable, doesn’t that constitute a disabling conflict of interest for Mr. Mueller as he is pursuing an investigation engineered in this fashion?

REP. JIM JORDAN:

Well, it sure raises some real concern. I mean you’re exactly right. James Comey gets fired, he then decides, I’m going to leak a government memo to a friend at the New York Times with a stated objective, he said this under oath, create momentum for a special counsel, and of course not just any special counsel, Bob Mueller, his friend, his predecessor, his mentor.  And now we have this special counsel with Mr. Mueller in fact heading it up. And I would also like to point out, we put this in our op-ed, remember a few years ago when an agency with a little bit influence over Americans lives; an agency with the power of the Internal Revenue Service was caught targeting conservatives? We did a resolution in the House three years ago calling for a special investigation counsel there, and then Attorney General Holder aid, “Oh no can’t do it there.” Even though the lead agent at the Justice Department in charge of investigating the case for a woman named Barbra Bausserman. And she was a max out contributor to President Obama’s reelection campaign; nope can’t have a special counsel there.  And then last year, numerous members of Congress called for a special counsel in the Clinton investigation. Loretta Lynch said, “Nope, not going to do it there either.” Even though she had met with Bill Clinton on the tarmac three days before Secretary Clinton was interviewed; can’t have a special counsel there. But now, when it is about James Comey; him getting fired, we’ve got to have a special counsel. I mean this is what drives Americans crazy because it is supposed to be equal treatment under the law, and this sure doesn’t look like it.

FRANK GAFFNEY:

Well, especially the conduct of the Clinton Administration, but let me switch gears here. Again, our guest is Representative Jim Jordon of Ohio. As a member of the Judiciary Committee, I’m sure you’ve been troubled as have I by the fact that this double standard has enabled a completely blind eye to be turned investigations that clearly are in order of actual, demonstrable, documented collusion between folks, who happen to be democrats in high office at the time. Notably, Barack Obama, who asked Vladimir Putin to give him space in the course of the 2012 Election, and Hillary Clinton, who was using her foundation, it seems, to launder money for a pay-to-play scheme for donors who are getting uranium deals, and building a Silicon Valley for Russia for heaven’s sake. Where are the investigations for those?

REP. JIM JORDAN:

There are all kinds of things we should be looking at, and you’re exactly right Frank. Including, this family of IT folks from Pakistan who are now in trouble, potential trouble, who were working for democrat members of Congress, and they have done things inappropriately with classified information. Here’s the kicker, it’s not just Republicans. Remember, Senator Diane Feinstein, when asked, that we should look into the Lynch/Comey manner, after his testimony a few weeks ago, even democratic senator from California, Diane Feinstein said we should look into this. So, this is that critical, and the American people want us to get answers because most Americans care deeply the fundamental concept, equal treatment under the law for every single American. Not special treatment because your last name is Clinton, not special treatment because your husband was the president, and you’re the secretary of state. Equal treatment under the law should be the same.

FRANK GAFFNEY:

Amen. Well, there can be no rule of law as a practical manner, as you know Congressman, without that fundamental principle. Just on that House IT scandal, I am constantly musing about the fact that if Republican members in the House of Representatives, twenty or more of them, were using a white supremacist group let’s say, just for the purposes of discussion, as source of IT services. And were doing so in some very squirrelly ways without much accountability, people were not showing up to work and on and on and on, as Luke Roziak of The Daily Caller has documented. I can’t conceive of Nancy Pelosi as Speaker of the House giving that kind of pass and waiting for the Capitol Police to sort out the facts. Why is the Congress, under the leadership of Paul Ryan, not holding hearings, if not on the substance of the problems that the police are looking into, at least the ethics questions perhaps with the relationships that are so bizarre here with Pakistani nationals as you say?

REP. JIM JORDAN:

It is frustrating for many of us why we don’t push a little harder. I think the American people want us to push a little harder; the American people want the truth. And the only way you get the truth is sometimes is to have the hearings and ask the tough questions when people are under oath. After all, it was a hearing with James Comey under oath where we learned that he actually had leaked a government memo through a friend at The New York Times, where we learned Attorney Loretta Lynch told him to say it was accurate to call the Clinton investigation a manner and she wasn’t under investigation. So, that’s why you have the hearing because that is where you learn valuable information, where people are brought in, sworn in under oath, that’s how you’re supposed to do it. So, I’m for having as many as we can to get to the truth.

FRANK GAFFNEY:

Good. Well as a member of the Oversight and Government Reform Committee, I pray that you’re going to be able to help get that done. Listen, let me ask you very quickly Congressman Jordan. You were one of sixty members of the House who recently wrote, calling for Justice Ginsburg to recuse herself from involvement in the deliberation about the immigration pause. I think that you feel, as do I, that this is really important. Where do you think that stands and will she?

REP. JIM JORDAN:

Well we got a pretty good decision two weeks ago; relative to her, I don’t think so. But we point out in a letter that the code for judicial ethics says that if there is any way bias there, you cannot function in an impartial fashion and you’re supposed to recuse yourself. Well look at some of the statements Justice Ginsburg made about then candidate Trump, now President Trump. And you’re like wow, that definitely calls into question her ability to remain impartial when weighing in the facts. This is why you had sixty members sign, it wasn’t just one or two members, it was sixty members of the House of Representatives saying look at this fact pattern, look at the ethics canon say, and look at what she said about candidate Trump. So, we’ll see.

FRANK GAFFNEY:

I hope that you will keep the heat on Congressman Jim Jordon as you are doing on so many of these fronts and others that we can’t even get into today. But thank you for taking the time with us and for your great leadership in the Freedom Caucus, in the House of Representatives, and in Washington more generally. You are a swamp drainer, and we need one big time at the moment. Thank you sir for all you do.